The Meaning of Work
Does work have meaning? Should it? If so, how do we find it? And how many Utz chips are in a 3-lb pound?
Discuss these and other mysteries of life.
posted by Lisa @ 3:43 PM
36 Comments
Nothing Special
This will all be on the exam.
Friday, June 17, 2005
Discuss these and other mysteries of life.
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36 Comments:
Seems to me that work is a means to an end for most people. If I worked at Burger King, I might do the best job I can but the work would still not have meaning, even if I advanced to manager. I would, as in my current job, have no ownership, or stake, in the company. The question I grapple with is: Can work have meaning in a capitalist economic environment?
I know some people achieve this, but I don't think too many people do. In fact, how many people actually strive to find work that is meaningful? For instance, my dad was an environmental contractor; he had his own business with about 1 or 2 people working for him. He loved what he did -- out the door before sunrise and back at nightfall, except when it rained. In the summer he would sometimes take me and our dog, Lucy, with him. He loved being outdoors and working hard. He had control, for the most part, over his way of making a living. I don't have that nor does anyone else in my family.
I don't want to make a lot of money but do need to earn enough to provide the basics. How can I achieve this? How DO I find it? All I understand is that if I am to work for a company I do not own, I must be able to appreciate and value what the company produces and know that I am being treated with fairness and respect. As is, the longer I stay with my current employer, the more I get sucked in to being complacent and accepting the limitations placed on me as if I have no choice, which I don't unless I want to organize, which I don't. My opinion is not valued, though occasionally it is coddled into believing it is. There is no opportunity for advancement unless I go into debt and get a PhD, which I don't want to do in this particular field at least. And, really, PhD programs suck the life out of you as much as a job does.
So what's the answer? I can make a list of what interests me and try to think of how to find non-oppresive work in that area. I've been thinking about it for years but maybe the act of writing and exploring via other people's ideas will help.
What about non-capilalist societies? I'm thinking about European cities. Are people there freer to do what they want, follow their dreams, than we are? Somebody please have an answer.
I don't know that I have an answer---just a whole lot of questions.
But . . . I was talking to someone else about this yesterday and---not to pull a Clinton---but I think "meaning" can mean different things to different people. Some people, like me, want their work to be a form of service, to help the world if even in a little way, to work for a purpose, a cause. Other people find their meaning in working with something that interests them and brings them satisfaction: selling comic books or baking bread or repairing cars. They enjoy what they do. Other people find their meaning in the quality of their work---in taking pride in the product that they produce or the service they provide or the company they work for.
That's a very long-winded way of saying that I think it is possible to find meaning in work in a capitalist society. But it often means going against the norm and sacrificing. I could make a lot more money working in public relations---which is what society tells me I should do---but I'd be miserable. I might be a lot happier in a different position than I'm in but have to give up a sort-of-decent paycheck and medical benefits and the flexibility of my hours.
Unfortunately, right now, I don't have any of the possible forms of meaning: I don't feel like I'm doing anything good for the community or the world or anyone; I'm not interested in subject matter; and I don't have much pride in the quality of the work or my company. So: Do I change my attitude---try to find meaning in my current work? Or do I change my situation?
As for the Europeans, my take on that is that I don't think they invest as much of their identity in their work. Work is something they do to pay the bills, but it isn't who they are. Whereas in the United States, we tend to invest a lot of our identity in our jobs. Think about the first questions you ask someone: What is your name? Where are you from? What do you do (meaning, what is your job)? I'm not sure of the source of that difference. Part of it could be a different attitude toward standard of living. Europeans tend to have smaller homes, smaller cars, and fewer possessions. Young people live with their family for much longer---often until their late twenties or when they marry. So they don't worry as much about what they earn. Part of it could be that Europeans tend to get placed into their occupations at an earlier age and have less mobility between jobs. In Italy and France, for example, you are tracked as early as high school---even earlier if your family has a business that you've been apprenticed in. But I don't think they are any freer to follow their dreams. I think their jobs are as boring as ours!
So that's my long-winded response. Others?
One other thing that I meant to include: When I was meditating this morning on the meaning of my own life, a thought came to me. I remembered a story from a book about Ghandi that I read recently. As Ghandi was leaving a town, a man who had traveled to see him asked Ghandi for a message to give to the people back in his home. Ghandi replied, "My life is my message."
"Man--individualized, specific, named--was trusted and the triumph or failure of the task entrusted to him depended on his capacity for action." --Ernesto Che Guevara, speech in Havana, Cuba, 1963
Lisa, a good observation about “meaning of work” having different meaning to different people. I want to work for a purpose or cause, though not sure that I would want to be involved in helping people directly, say like helping educate the Angolan community about how to avoid the Ebola virus spreading through their land or risking my life in Darfur to keep count of the death toll (that’s TOO passive).
Jumping in naively with both feet, what about this scenario:
After careful planning and preparation and information gathering, I find that I’m able to get a visa to stay in Cuba for a year. I go with a group of people who are all interested about disseminating information about the situation in Cuba. We explore the conditions of women, the social structure, religion, history, politics. We write and sell this to a progressive U.S. publication and/or start up a Web site with daily news items. With Fidel’s time limited (by death or stepping down), it might just be the place to be to get out information. Seems that most experts on Cuba are people who have studied it in books but who have not actually lived there because it’s so difficult to get into and stay in the communist country. One of my favorite playwrights and thinkers, Tony Kushner, said this in a Salon interview:
But the notion that anybody has a continued interest in alternative economic formations -- alternative to capitalism -- is shocking and appalling to people. There's a real anger I've seen in audiences for "Slavs!," in places like Baltimore and Los Angeles, a very cold reception that I think is based on the absolute certainty, as people have been promised over and over by the media, that we don't have to think about these issues at all anymore. The idea that someone is still writing plays about them is hopeless. I don't think that anybody's going to kill me because I say I'm a socialist, but I think people find it risible. (http://archive.salon.com/weekly/interview960610.html)
Why aren’t we studying communism and socialism? Why are we so convinced that capitalism should sweep the world? Why aren’t other economic alternatives being considered? Why are people risking their lives to sail to the U.S. from Cuba? I know the textbook answers to those questions, but what if I could witness the situation first hand?
Someone told me yesterday, “You can talk yourself out of anything.” At first glance it might seem absurd, but if it’s something I would enjoy and feel good about, why not explore that?
In addition to preparing intellectually, get my body in shape, expose myself to Cuban food, learn the language, and work on my writing skills. Make contacts with every possible Cuban expert across the country, as well as people I already know who have been there, etc., etc., etc. If it felt right after I explored every crevice of myself and the country, could I make it happen? I wouldn’t journey there by myself but might with a group of cool people.
How far out there does this sound?
Here is a brief article about living in Cuba:
http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/living_in_cuba.htm
Your idea to go to Cuba is not at all farfetched. There are some legal and financial barriers, obviously, but those can be overcome. And I think Cuba is an interesting situation.
I agree that we need to question our devotion to the capitalist system. The cynic/pessimist in me wonders if it is a worthwhile pursuit---most of the world now operates on a mostly capitalist model and even socialist and communist countries are mostly in name only---the free market rules just about everywhere.
But, and not to get too far off the topic or overly gradiose, perhaps some of our dissatisfaction is related to being stuck in a free-market, capitalist society. Buddhists describe suffering as a dissatisfaction, as a wheel rubbing against the hub. And maybe we are finding that our values rub against the norms of a capitalist society. Regardless of how we define or find our meaning, we are in a culture that tells us to produce and consume, that measures success by material wealth and status. It sounds like we are searching for something intangible---something that can't be consumed---and therefore is outside the norms of our culture.
Furthermore, stepping out of that norm puts us in a precarious situation. As Madaes said, we need to meet our basic needs---rent, food, medical care, transportation, etc. Attaining those things is largely tied to being a part of the capitalist culture---having a "normal" job with a salary and benefits. And the cycle of capitalism makes it extremely hard to break out of that norm---as we produce and consume, even our basic needs get more expensive. So we get stuck.
Imagine the possibilities if we lived somewhere with universal health care, easy access to affordable public transportation and housing, reasonable food prices---and easy access to fresh, seasonal food---and a society that didn't define success by material goods or status.
Hmmmm . . . maybe I should move back to Europe. Housing isn't exactly affordable, but the rest . . .
To be honest, Lisa, all - or at least most - of those quality of life concerns can probably be found in Cuba as well. Except for the hurricanes and socialist structure, it's pretty much regarded as an island paradise in terms of climate, people, food and all that.
As for living there - it's a really exciting idea. Cuba, especially for people from the U.S., is this shadowy no-man's-land that most people have only a shallow understanding of. I've heard plenty of people say, "I'd love to go to Cuba ... after Castro dies." As if when Castro dies, he'll take communism with him. Either way, I've always said I'd like to go while Cuba is still communist, while it's still interesting.
Like most things, there's a way around whatever obstacles there may be. I think Madaes may have hit on something with the idea of some sort of research/publication/Web site concept. Getting into Cuba, much less staying there for any length of time, is tricky for Americans, but one of the easiest ways is by going for research or journalistic projects. I think these are both areas where we have definite strengths. And of course we would be working together, but we could also work on our own projects at the same time if we wanted, a sort of umbrella Cuba Project thing. The possibilies for that bugaboo called making a living are there - stories sold to publications, our own publications, art - hell, even culturally geared calendars - and I think there would be enough issues of interest to keep us busy.
I'm rambling a little, but the upshot is this: When I think about it, there are lots of reasons to do something like this, and not many reasons not to. When me and my better half talk about doing things and then start talking ourselves out of it, we usually realize that it's really just us being lazy or cynical.
I'm tired of being lazy and cynical.
Of course, there is something to be said for that old saw about finding something you like and then making a living at it. There's always the possibility of finding the same sense of fulfillment without packing your bags.
I guess it's the question we're still rasslin' with - what is it we want? What are we looking for?
I don't have anything against Cuba; I just don't know enough about it to know if I would want to go there and if the issues would interest me.
A big part of my problem is figuring out what it is that I want to do---what do I like? I've spent most of my nearly three decades doing what was sensible or expected, what would make others happy or what would impress others. And now I just don't know what would make me happy!
I also have the good/bad fortune of being wide open to a whole lot of choices. I'm not married and I don't own a home---so I can pick up and leave whenever I want. I have some credit card debt that I'd need to take care of before I made any big changes---like leaving the country---but selling my car would more than cover it. My dog is my one true commitment---and a stumbling block on some options.
I also struggle with reconciling my ideal with reality. Or should I reconcile the two? Am I limiting myself unnecessarily? Am I being realistic or scared? Am I being lazy?
Like Chamizo said, when I think about the things I'd like to do, there are a lot of reasons to do them and not a lot of reasons not to. So why do the reasons not to always win?
I agree, chamizo -- what exactly am I, are we looking for?
For some reason, living in another country is lights my fire when I think of following a new path, partly due to the current political/religious situation in the US but also because I don’t ever see myself having any extra money to travel, so what’s the point of staying here? But something is lurking underneath that explains this idea more fully; I just haven’t found it yet. Are there more chances to be independent abroad? Is it just because I think I’ll never really find what I want in a capitalist country without being somebody’s whore?
In corresponding to a friend today, she wrote, “I'd rather live in fear and uncertainty, than give away so much of myself.” I like the idea of a group effort, too, because I would feel safer. And if in Cuba, it would be a commune of people within a commune of people.
Chamizo’s ideas of earning a living sound possible, though I worry about getting over there and NOT making any money. Armed with writing backgrounds and cameras and computers, we could certainly produce something, and by selling it to a capitalist country, wouldn’t we be earning what we needed with enough to put back some $?
Maybe packing the bags is just a symbolic gesture of starting afresh and not really necessary. I do know that part of the dissatisfaction is within myself (and always has been). But even if I find peace within, I’m still not going to miraculously find that I suddently love my job.
That's part of the problem, isn't it? It seems as if you have three options: either get lucky or convince yourself somehow that you love your job, hate your job and learn to live with it, or just don't care one way or the other.
I got lucky once, and like a bad relationship it turned on me. I realize that I shouldn't judge everything by that one experience, but it's hard to let go of it. Even now, in a job I don't actually mind so much, I feel as if I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I've also had jobs I hated. Not just hated, but HATED, and I ended up hating myself for getting into that sort of situation. I've been able to reach a point where I've been able to decide, "If I'm not happy, I leave - no questions asked." The problem is, I might have a skewed idea of what "happy" is supposed to be - am I supposed to whistle while I skip to work everyday? Or am I just supposed to be happy that I don't despise my job?
On a related note, if I don't care about a job, why do it? How much am I supposed to invest of myself in a job? I keep trying to tell myself that a job's just a job, and that if I want to find meaning in work I should do it after-hours, with my own projects. It's hard though, and easy to get discouraged.
That's one of the things I like about this group discussion, by the way - it helps to know it's not just me and my better half. And I'm feeling more energized, like something can be done. I mean, why not? Really?
Madaes said something interesting: "... even if I find peace within, I’m still not going to miraculously find that I suddenly love my job." As corny as it sounds, maybe what we need to do is figure out what it is we love, and somehow make that our job. I know I'm not saying anything new here, but I think it's worth repeating. And maybe, by combining the two somehow, it will help lend a feeling of inner peace.
All I know for sure is that I have this underlying sense of frustration, and I just can't put my finger on it. Maybe it's not just one thing, maybe it's a combination of things. A job that, for whatever reason, feels unfulfilling (pride in a job well-done can only go so far), untapped or unused creativity, the sense that time is somehow being wasted ... how can these not be related?
In a different conversation with Madaes, the possibility of grants came up. Any ideas?
Madaes---I agree about the symbolism of packing up your bags, but my experience is that many times it's same shit, different city. Among our bags inevitably is our baggage (and, yes, I have seen a lot of daytime television---and bought the books!). I think a physical move makes sense if you need to for your dream/bliss/etc. For example, if what you really want to be doing is photographing Cuba, you probably need to move to Cuba. But if it is just for the sake of change, I'm not sure that it changes all that much. Although it can be good for getting out of a rut. I'm contradicting myself now. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that moving isn't a magical solution but it can be part of a solution. Does that make sense?
Chamizo---For me, I don't need to be "whistling" on my way to work, but I do want to be engaged in what I'm doing and feel some satisfaction from it. Sometimes it's easier to define in the negative---I don't want to wake up with a sense of dread. I don't want to force myself to do things only because I'm up on deadline. I don't want to be watching the clock so I can leave the exact moment that I've put in my 8 hours for the day. And I don't think it's realistic to expect any job to be thrilling every day, but I do think it is possible to find work that you don't dread and push yourself through only to get the paycheck.
I sort of agree with the idea of finding meaning outside of work---through volunteering or writing or pursuing another passion---but my feeling on that is that most people who are working to pay the bills while they pursue their passions outside of work still hope that one day they'll make a living from their passion.
Work takes up a third of our day. Half of our waking hours---or more if you count commuting---so I think dismissing it as just a paycheck is setting yourself up for a dreary existence.
Okay, I'm rambling. But I'll finish with a couple of book titles that have been recommended to me (because we all need more to read, right?):
Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez
Affluenza by De Graff et al.
So here's a Monday morning question: What do you want to do? For the moment, leave out things like working conditions, salary, etc. But if you could make a living doing anything, what would it be?
Me: I want to be Anna Quindlen. In my ideal world, I would make a living as a writer. I'd have a column on social/cultural/political issues and have enough time to write novels.
This isn't really an answer, and it sounds immature and naive, but I want my work to be fun. I want to enjoy what I'm doing, and to work with people who feel the same way. I want energy.
And this doesn't mean I don't want to work. I don't mind hard work. Some of the times I've worked hardest were also the times I felt most fulfilled. But I think to have that, you have to care and some days that's hardest of all.
If I could choose anything, it would be something where I could be creative; work with creative, supportive, people who are invested in what they do; and produce something I could be proud of. I'd also like to bring attention to something that otherwise would be generally overlooked (I can't seem to get the "inform the public" bug out of my system).
Hm - these are a lot of words to not really be saying anything.
Chamizo---I don't think it's immature or naive to want to enjoy your work. I think what you're talking about is what Csikszentmakhalyi referred to as "flow"---when you are so engaged with what you are doing---whether it be because it's your passion, because of a higher purpose, or because of the people you work with---that you lose sense of time. You become absorbed into the activity.
I may seem like a slacker lately---heck, I am a slacker lately---but there was a time when I would put in 60-70 hour work weeks, come in with a temperature of 101---because I was so caught up with what I was doing. I was fighting for a good cause and I believed in what I was doing. I was excited about what I was doing.
I'd love to find that again---where I'm not watching the clock, not dreading coming in or counting the hours until I can leave, not forcing myself to do the bare mininum.
And I like your idea of working in a creative environment with supportive people on something you feel proud of. I wonder if that's something that can be built in my current situation or if I need to change my situation to find that.
To throw another thing into the mix, when we talk about finding meaning or even happiness in our work, maybe we need to look at our motivations---what are we trying to get out of the work that we do. For some people the motivation might be monetary; for others, it might be producing something tangible.
Some of my motivations (in no particular order): financial stability, using my gifts, making a positive change in the world, learning new things, and receiving praise.
Yours?
My desire to move to another country or state, I think, has more to do with wanting to see through fresh eyes, the way it feels to see a place for the first time; I love the way that feels. Travel would remedy that, but in this job, I’m limited in the amount of time I can take off and the expense of travel. Ideally, I would like work that involved some travel. Also, I’d like to spend part of the day researching (and thereby learning) and analyzing (i.e., being creative in mind). Physical labor for part of the day would be good, too.
Yes, I can do all these things outside of work, but I’d rather be doing them as part of my work, even if my only change of scenery was walking from a building to a library. I don’t really need to receive praise for my work because I’ve rarely had that. As long as I know that I’m doing well, that’s good enough. Like lisa and chamizo both said, I’d like to look forward to going to work, be obsessed with it I like it so much, wake up at night with ideas about it. Now, that is "fun" work for me.
I, too, like the idea of informing the public. I don't even need to do the writing myself; just being involved in the writing would be good enough for me. Oh, yes, and financial security of course.
Where is this job? What is this job?
I feel pretty much the same way, Madaes, both about traveling and about the kind of work I'd like to do.
Traveling is a great, almost necessary, thing for myself and my better half. And while there are some places we enjoy revisiting, we nearly always go somewhere we've never been. I would argue that's the whole point of traveling.
Of course, we've got the same problems - a lack of time, and a lack of funding. Balancing those two, in general, always seems to be the big trick we have trouble pulling off. When we were on our own, we had plenty of time but no money. Once we took jobs, time was put on the company leash.
The other day I was listening to NPR, and there was a story on how the government had used Army personnel and independent contractors to give reports and seminars on Iraq and Afghanistan. We all know what was done with that information, but I remember thinking, "What a cool job." I love the idea of traveling the world, learning about different people and histories and cultures, and then coming back to individuals, travel groups or even corporations and giving them this information so they have the tools to hopefully respect and begin to understand the cultures they'll be immersing themselves in.
There's got to be a way to pull something like that off.
I really love that idea, immersing in a culture and then sharing that information with other people.
Caused me to look up international relief agencies. Not quite what you’re talking about chamizo, but as close as I can think of right now. There's so much opportunity there. Here’s one good site I found.
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/dbc.nsf/doc100?OpenForm
An excellent article related to this discussion:
http://www.odemagazine.com/article.php?aID=4085
"The view of the world that emerges in Danah Zohar’s work is a holistic system in which not only matter, but consciousness—including feelings, spirituality and mysticism—are given a place. Humans are not just cogs in a mechanical universe with no influence on the outcome of evolution; they are active creators. Experiments have shown that observers play a crucial role in physics: it is the experience of the observer that determines that a particle is a particle and not a wave. That is to say, the consciousness of the observer causes atoms to “drop down” into a particular form. From this, Zohar concludes that our intentions have a direct effect on matter. Put yet another way: each human creates his or her own reality."
"The famous Maslow pyramid of needs is part of this paradigm: the idea that basic needs precede spiritual and emotional fulfillment. Zohar disagrees and turns the pyramid around: “Of course you need to get your basic needs met. But the people Maslow is speaking to have satisfied their hunger and have a roof over their head, otherwise they wouldn’t be reading Maslow. For that group—and ultimately for every human being—a sense of self-esteem and self-realization are of primary importance. The essence is that every human being experiences his or her life as meaningful and significant. That is the factor that motivates us. Without that consciousness we get sick or die. There’s a good reason why the word ‘spiritual’ comes from the Latin ‘spiritus’, which refers to that which gives life or vitality to a system.”"
I don’t know why I’ve never thought about international relief. I guess somewhere in my mind I thought that was limited to people involved in health care, the Peace Corp, or mere volunteer work. Volunteer work isn’t an option for more than one year because I have a student loan that needs paying. Surprisingly, I’m finding that some of these relief jobs pay very well, especially once you’ve established yourself in a certain place and with a certain agency or organization for a year or more. Some positions I’ve seen that I might be qualified for after a year pay so much that I could have my student loan paid off in the next decade, contrary to the rest of my life in the job I’m in now. Wow, what a relief for me.
Not only that, but I could be sending money back to the states to invest or save for retirement or for when I return because the cost of living is so inexpensive in some areas and housing is usually paid, as is travel to and from the place I’d be working. I’m really getting excited about this.
I can see myself living in a rural area in Africa and being blissfully happy with the silence and natural environment--a place where the agency I work for is directly involved in helping the people around us, getting to know the people and their culture and language, and helping people help themselves. I really can see this working out for me. Yes, I have the pitfalls on my radar, but I’m choosing to focus on the positive right now. I’m going to read as much as I can on relief organizations in Africa, different African countries and cultures, and experiences of relief aid workers. If I’m still jazzed about it, I’ll start talking to people who’ve done this type of work and zoom in more on the negatives that might not fit with my ever-so neurotic personality.
I'm probably thinking in utopian terms, but I have this idea that all the people who work around you in an environment like that are easy to get along with. How exhilarating to be around people from all around the world so that ideas and problem-solving come from so many different experiences and are a group effort with everyone's ideas respected and valued.
Can’t remember the last time I was excited about looking for work. Yes, indeed, lisa:
"The essence is that every human being experiences his or her life as meaningful and significant. That is the factor that motivates us. Without that consciousness we get sick or die."
Most days I feel like I'm dying here. I want to be an "active creator."
Even better, I've found a way to take my dog. Cargo ships will transport her and me.
How much does the cargo ship option cost? 'Cause that's the biggest thing keeping me here right now. Well, that and the possibility of grad school.
lisa,
here's the best site I've discovered so far. I did not do a search for price b/c you have to submit all your information. Price is certainly important. I don't know if it would be better than flying or not. Please let me know what you find out.
http://www.dogfriendly.com/server/travel/shiptravel/shiptravel.shtml
lisa and chamizo:
What are you thinking about now in terms of future career changes to find meaningful work?
L, you're not Anna Q. yet, so what will get you there? You said that your pup was the only thing holding you back from returning overseas. If it's doable, then where would you go?
C, what are you looking into?
This weekend, I purchased several half-priced books by writers who have lived in central & eastern Africa and one book, Living Poor, by a guy who was in the Peace Corp. The reading helps me feel like I'm exploring, working toward something. It certainly excites me to think I may be moving toward something I would enjoy.
L, I want to talk to you more about living in Africa, starting with living conditions.
I know we can all find something better.
Madaes,
This is probably a cop out, but a lot of what I'm doing right now is meditating, praying, and leaving myself open to opportunities. I think there are often different paths to the same end. To become a professional writer, I could go to graduate school either for an M.A. in journalism or an MFA in creative writing; I could take a cub reporter job on a small-town paper; I could try to break into freelance work; etc. I'm not sure which path to take or if there is another way that I'm not seeing.
For now, I'm trying to take my writing more seriously. And taking opportunities as they come. Last night, I went to a discussion with the editor of the local Catholic newspaper---and it turns out that she's looking for columnists and op-ed pieces. So I'm going to submit something there. I don't know what yet, but I'll come up with something.
Honestly, though, I often feel so overwhelmed by the thought of another career change---and possibly another change in location and lifestyle---that I can't even take a first step.
To answer your question about where I would go---I'm not sure. There are so many places I'd like to try. I'd love to go back to Africa---Maybe to Tanzania or Uganda or back to Malawi. Or to southeast Asia---there is so much need there. I've also thought that I'd like to live in Ireland or Australia.
For myself, I think the idea is crawling around somewhere in the back of my mind that I'll have the best chance of finding meaningful work if I'm doing something on my own.
Like I've mentioned before, I was in a career that was meaningful to me - at the time. I got into it with all the best intentions, full of idealism and high standards and a feeling that I was a part of something that was bigger than myself. I also felt that I was contributing to society by providing information, by providing a service.
Unfortunately, I entered this career just as it was dying. I was taught and instilled with these ideas of what journalism was supposed to be, and the industry changed. And it wasn't for the better. In the end, I was frustrated and disgusted and, honestly, I felt betrayed and bitter. Even today ... well, let's just say I got over the bitterness at least.
Freelancing, running your own business, was extremely rewarding, as long as you don't mind being broke most of the time and basically thinking about work 24 hours a day. And as long as you're doing something you like, then you won't. So we did that for a little more than three years, had new experiences and learned a lot about a different aspect of society and about ourselves (as corny as that sounds). A newsroom can be insulated, ironically, so it was good to become a "civilian" again, and it was great to succeed (as we defined success) on our own terms.
Ideally, I think me and my better half would like to find some way to put our creative impulses to work. Whether that means putting down roots or moving or traveling is almost academic - it's really just part of the equation. What we're doing now, essentially, is saving money and trying to figure out how to put it to use. Our thinking nowadays seems to be broken down by trying to answer the questions, "What do we want?" and "What do we have to do to do that?" If we really want it, we'll do what we need to do.
Like we've mentioned before, answering the "What do we want" question is the hardest thing. For example: Lisa, do you want to be a writer (novelist, short story writer, etc.) or do you want to be a journalist? Because I can tell you, journalism is more craft than art. If you want to be creative, journalism is limited in that sense. If you want to be an essayist or novelist or whatever, the best thing to do is to write. Write and write and write. Make connections, meet people and immerse yourself in the environment you want to be a part of.
Maybe someday I'll take my own advice. One of the hard things for me to remember is that you can't just want things. It takes work, and I'm inherently lazy. But I'm trying to be better.
Chamizo,
You are correct, of course. If I want to write, I should write. Hard to be a writer otherwise, although I'm trying my darndest to do just that.
I want to write commentary and fiction. The fiction side I sort of understand---you write fiction, submit short pieces to journals to get noticed and gain some bragging points, beg for an agent, get your agent to shop your manuscript around the publishers, etc.
The commentary side---I'm not sure how to break into that other than through journalism. It seems that most people who have jobs that I would want started out on the copy desk. That doesn't necessarily mean that that's the only path, though.
Thoughts? Ideas?
One that I've been tossing around is starting my own journal. But that's a very pie-in-the-sky idea.
Well, I'm diving in late, but I'm here.
Gosh, you guys have already covered so much.
I too have been struggling for more than a decade to find SOME kind of meaning in my work. I have only come close once. I have quit higher paying jobs just to find out that the new, lower paying, but more meaningful to me one was a poor fit for me in many other ways. I even tried academia and freelancing as options.
I'm really beginning to think that my problem is just me. I have the same problem as the lead in the film Office Space. He is asked the question "If you had a million dollars what would you do?" His answer was simply "nothing."
I have tons of peripheral interests, but they are all meaningless and the rackets that churn out the materials are typically just that, rackets. I cannot answer the question "what do you want to do?" at all.
I have vague notions like Madaes of wanting to do something to help others. Of course, my skill set isn't really applicable for the most part to helping people, so that makes it especially hard to get in the door. My people skills are rough as well—I find too much interaction with others abrasive and painful. SO, while I WANT to help, I am terrible at it.
There is another factor: I want to be good at what I do. Not just good enough, but really good. I have yet to find something that I excel at. I am passably good at a number of things, but excel at nothing.
I have reservations about moving anywhere simply to change perspective. I have done it many times before and have found that I have never actually gained much from it. Again, this sounds cheesy, but I think the problem with me, at least, is inside me, so changing environments will not help me at all. I think relocating is great, IF you actually know what you are going TO, not just what you are going FROM.
So, I myself, for now, am trying to work on figuring out more about myself. Not only what I want to do; but, what I want to do AND excel at. So far I've come up with nada, zip, zilch, zero. However, that will not keep me from continuing to search!
'bout damn time you got here, E.
A lot of what E said sums up how I feel about things, and I think he hits on an important point - even if we don't know exactly what it is we're looking for, at least we're looking. Sometimes I wonder why I can't just be satisfied with the way things are like everyone else seems to be, but then I think, "Wait ... is that what I want?" And the answer is almost always no.
Of course I want security, but that doesn't mean I want a mortgage and 2.5 kids. I want a station wagon, but that's so I have somewhere to cram the bikes and books and the Better Half's art supplies. Sometimes knowing what you don't want is as important as knowing what you do want (have I already said that?).
I have a vague idea of working with artists and creative people, even if it's just promoting someone else's work, but I don't know how. I have an equally vague idea of writing for myself, but I can't find the discipline. These are things I need to solve within myself, because if they don't get resolved I can't blame anyone but myself. Motivation, though, is a hard thing to find. I'm hoping that by finally finding like-minded people, it will at least kickstart me enough to get off my butt.
I wonder, a lot, if it comes down to that word I'd bet we all hate - compromise. I don't equate money with success, but I'd like to make enough to live on without struggling. Moving doesn't answer any fundamental questions, but I worry I'll eventually get bored and look for something new. Is "satisfaction" really just "settling?"
I'd like to think it isn't. Of course some compromises are necessary, and always will be - it's how you live a balanced life. But I don't think it means jettisoning the things that have value to you. I have to keep reminding myself that if something is really that important to me, I'll do what I have to to preserve it and make it grow.
Nothing is going to be fun all the time, and nothing is always going to be completely satisfying. Even the best situations will be frustrating sometimes. But I wonder if that's when, ideally, you can say, "Well, it's still worth it. I wouldn't want anything else."
I want to find my "still worth it." And maybe it's not just one thing - maybe it's a lot of different things, but in the same areas. Can't things overlap?
I'm not sure I completely agree with what E says about "exceling," though. Exceling can be a subjective thing. Even though I know he'll disagree, I think E excels at computer- and web-based work. I don't think it's a bad thing to be a little unsatisfied with your work. You can't be unreasonable about it, but it's what keeps you good, and what makes you better. Once you think you're the best, you stop trying and your work starts suffering.
This is a convoluted way of saying, if you worry too much about "exceling" at something, you'll never do anything. I think this is one of the oh-so-many ways I sabotage myself, and kind of gets back to what we've said about talking ourselves out of things. I think sometimes just doing something, and doing you're best at it, putting your guts into something, is how a person excels.
Anyway, I've strayed pretty far and spewed out a lot of stuff that probably isn't all that relative. I'll just say that asking, "What do we want to do?" is a fundamental question to ask yourself. It's kind of daunting if you peel off enough layers. In a sense, it's asking, "Who am I?" and we all know what a can of worms that is.
Sometimes I think I overthink things. Maybe it'd be better to think like a kid when it comes to asking the big questions, because I worry that it's easy to complicate things to the point it's overwhelming. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to say, "I like this, I don't like that," and taking it from there.
So I'll throw a question out there (and Lisa, if you want to move it to another thread, it's fine with me): What do you like to do? Not want, but LIKE?
Wow. So much to respond to.
L'il E---I have to agree with Chamizo that you are being very hard on yourself. I think that there is much more that you excel at than you give yourself credit for.
I understand the sentiment, though, because what I like to do and what I'm good at doing aren't always the same things. I like to write; whether I'm any good at it is up for debate. I like running---I know that I'm no good at that!
I, like Chamizo and Lil'E, tend to have an all or nothing attitude: If I can't be great at something---if I don't think it is even possible for me to become great---why bother? It really is, as Chamizo said, a form of self-sabotage.
For example, I've tossed around the idea of starting a journal. But I worry that it will never be as big as The Paris Review. And because it probably won't be an international phenomenon and because there is a high probability that it will be stillborn, I probably won't even bother trying. Even though it could be fun just to try to get it off the ground.
Chamizo makes another good point that even the "perfect" job won't be perfect all the time. But I guess, for me, when I'm doing something that I enjoy, that I'm good at, and that I know is making a difference, I can push through the hard stuff and even welcome it in a way---that adrenaline high of a challenge. But right now, I think I'd settle for just having more good days than bad.
Speaking of settling, I worry about that as well. I guess I define settling as accepting unhappiness when it is in your power to make a change. I don't consider it settling if you find a place that you love and a job that you love and decide that what makes you happiest is to stay there.
I'd sort of like to be settled in a good sense---finding a place that I enjoy and a way to make a living that brings me satisfaction. But I don't know if I'll ever find real happiness and satisfaction because I'm always wondering if there's something better around the corner and I'm always looking to see what the Jones's are doing. I keep hoping that when I do find that right place and work, things will just click.
Is that incredibly naive?
I have some other thoughts, but I'm not sure how to put them into words.
As to what I like---
* Being creative, whether that's knitting, painting pottery, writing snarky captions . . .
* Making things---although I like the process more than the finished product
* Experiencing art, whether going to a gallery, seeing a play, or listening to beautiful music
* Being surrounded by beauty and nature
* Reading and researching and finding stuff
* Organizing and making plans
* Writing
* Traveling
* Photography
* Helping people, especially helping them get what they need or making connections for them. I like sharing information or giving recommendations or ideas.
* Gossip and pop culture (of course!); watching television and movies
So where does that leave me?
Alright, now I see that I totally misspoke, mistyped, missomethinged...
When I think of Excelling at something I think of something where 1) I myself feel like I am both pretty outstanding at it (opinions of others aside) 2) It fully engages my attention. I don't have to like something to excel at it; it just has to meet those two criteria. An example for me would be writing essays in school. I never really wanted to do it, enjoyed the actual process, or was very taken with many of the topics. However, I would fully and completely engage with the task at hand none-the-less, and in the end I would end up with a product that I found to be fairly darned good (again, it might have sucked, but I thought it was good). Does this help clarify what I lazily wrapped up in the little word excel?
I totally agree with Chamizo that compromise will be very, very necessary. My mom is the only person I have ever known that will tell you she loves what she does. However, she hates a lot of the tasks involved in what she is doing. It is the love of her cause and the love of many aspects of her work.
That's all I want--enough to balance the scales to where I love what I do to make a living as much as I hate it. Then money is involved in the balance too: the more the scale tips toward love, the less money I need to make to do it. However, there is a limit there, and it is a pretty low threshold for myself--I am not willing to do things that I purely hate for a lot of money.
As Chamizo said, there is A LOT to be said for defining what you DON'T want. However, I feel like I've been defining that for so long now that I'd really like to start getting the definition of what I DO want hammered out at least some.
I LOVE your idea of a creative cooperative Chamizo. However, that brings up the other problem that you mentioned, motivation. I feel I have the potential for creativity welling up inside me ready to burst out; but I lack motivation or inspiration wholly. I have only made feeble creative efforts in probably the last decade because I am unable to fully engage in the process or produce anything that I find worthy of any kind of note due to my lack of inspiration. I don't want to be perfect, or even perceived to be good by others, I just want to fully engage in the process and be satisfied with the outcome (is that horse dead yet? not sure, better smack it again). You are both right though, giving up because you aren't great is the ultimate cop-out and a pitiful excuse for laziness.
I LOVE the idea of settling myself and agree with Lisa completely on that point. If you are settling in a place that is working for you that can be a great thing. If you settle in a place because you are afraid you'll never find anything better or as good again, your just going to destroy yourself in doing so. I don't think your sense of finding your place where you belong is naive at all, Lisa. I for one choose to believe whole-heartedly in it. Now, perhaps, I too am naive, but I am willing to embrace it whole-hog and go forward confident in my faith. Of course, now I'm just getting treacherously close to territory not in the scope of this thread, so I will desist immediately.
Things I like (in no particular order):
• hanging out with good friends, especially my best friend, Lee
• reading (many and sundry materials)
• animal friends
• writing
• movies
• music
• some games (board, video, and role-playing)
• riding two wheeled vehicles (bikes, scooters, motorcycles)
I'm sure there is more, but I can't think of any right now. I think I've gone on long enough now. It is well past time to end this post!
Oh, and can I safely ignore Ethan the undead? I assume he just was reading Lisa's blog and thought he'd be funny, right?
All are free to speak. All are free to ignore.
But, because I'm a censor in first-amendment clothing, those of who started this thread did so with the intent of having a constructive discussion to replace our unproductive daily whining. Most of us could power a small city with it.
That said, I so agree with Ethan some days.
I'm not saying Nosferatu is wrong or that he has no right to post here. I'm just saying that the comment isn't really in keeping with the zeitgeist of the rest of the thread, and I wanted to be sure he wasn't a specifically invited contributor. If this was a thread about being a wise ass about work life, well I could contribute to that all day long myself and it would be A HELL of a lot easier than contributing to the current thread :-)
Oh, L'il E, you have missed much today.
And, yes, again, let's try to use this thread to think constructively.
On the off chance that anyone is still reading this thread---or this blog---here's where I'm at now: I'm not happy with my current situation. And, yes, I know it could be worse. But I'd like it to be a lot better. Unfortunately, the job I want---fiction writer/columnist---isn't going to be advertised in the Sunday classifieds. So here are my challenges/questions/rambling thoughts:
1. How do I incorporate the things that I said that I like into my life if they aren't a part of my job?
2. Am I asking too much to be satisfied in my day job while I pursue my ideal?
3. How do I reach my ideal?
4. How do I make my current situation tolerable while I work toward my ideal? Or can I? Should I move on?
5. What do I really want in a job and what am I willing to sacrifice to get those things?
Anyway, these are my thoughts on a Friday afternoon.
No meaning. Just look busy ;-p
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